Howie Jacobson: A Lifetime of Bold Moves in Business and Branding

Ryan: 00:00:00

Well, happy Sunday or whatever day you happen to be listening to this.

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Welcome to the Shelling Peas podcast.

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I'm chef Ryan Jennings of

Sweet Pea Plant Based Kitchen.

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And today we're trying something new.

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We're adding a little intro to the show.

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I wanted to say first for all of you out

there who've been listening over the past

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few months, We've been fortunate enough

to speak to all sorts of wonderful,

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interesting people in and around the

Rochester area, telling the story of

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this fair city that we all love so much.

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And today is no different.

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Today's guest is Howie Jacobson.

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Howie's the managing

partner of Red Rock: 1886

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He's had a long and illustrious

career in the Rochester area

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with Constellation Brands.

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He was involved in it when it was the

Cannondale Wine Company, before it was

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even The juggernaut that it is today.

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He was managing partner at Dixon

Schwabel, one of the premier

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marketing and branding agencies in

the country, not just Rochester.

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He operated the High Falls Brewing Company

and had some early parts of his career.

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I don't want to spoil it all for you.

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It's an amazing talk and I.

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Feel very privileged to have been able to

speak with him and share it all with you.

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But man, I just thought I was inspired

by my friend, Pauly Guglielmo of

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the Pauly Guglielmo show here on the

Lunch Door Podcast Network to start

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doing a little bit of an intro and

sharing a little bit more about.

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As he put it, the wins and losses

running sweet pea and in life, and

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it's been a busy few weeks for us, you

know, last week, I got pretty busy.

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I'm usually pretty busy, but we

had a few extracurriculars on the

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docket that really kept me moving.

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Last Monday, I had the distinct pleasure

of heading out to the amazing facility on

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Monterey Boulevard, the home of Foodlink.

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They have a program there, a

fellowship program, where they're

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teaching culinary skills to tomorrow's

chefs and maybe entrepreneurs.

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And I had the opportunity to go

out to that cohort and teach them

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how to make a sweet pea recipe.

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We made cauliflower tikka masala, one

of the opening recipes from sweet pea.

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And it was such a wonderful experience.

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These folks, most of them had.

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Never really had an experience

with a purely plant based meal and

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we're super interested to learn and

had all sorts of great questions.

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I got to talk to them for at least

an hour about starting this company

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and running it and the kind of

culinary philosophy that we have here.

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And then we got to go in the

kitchen and cook together.

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And I was really.

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Impressed and inspired by these folks who

are working to build up the skills they

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need to have a career in this business.

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And we need a lot of them.

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So very grateful for that group

and looking forward to going

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back and doing it more regularly.

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And, you know, then I was, I was a little

behind the eight ball cause I spent

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the entire morning there and trying to

catch up and got home a little late on

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Tuesday night, still spinning the plates.

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All of a sudden my phone rings and it

is the one, the only Evan Dawson of

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connections with Evan Dawson on WXXI.

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And as anybody who's listened

before, you probably know that

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we're a member company of Venture

Creations, the incubator at RIT.

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And they had, they had pitched

an episode of Connections where

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we could promote some of the

companies that are in the incubator.

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And in two of us are operating

the whole food plant based

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space, Swee'Pee and Panna Cheesa.

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And look, I'm going to be honest.

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I think somebody pulled out,

which is why I was getting a

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call at eight o'clock at night.

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At first I didn't realize that it was a

little test for the following day, because

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we did eventually after that conversation,

book an episode on connections for

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1pm on Wednesday the second hour.

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But yeah.

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Evan is insightful and one of the best

listeners that I think I've ever met.

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Of course, that's critical to his job,

but connections with Evan Dawson is

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the high watermark for jokers like me

who have these rinky dink podcasts.

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So we had a great little conversation

and he asked me some questions about

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being plant based and the company

and all those sorts of things.

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And at the end of it, he was like, Great.

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So one o'clock tomorrow.

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Sound good.

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And I was like, Oh yeah, let me see.

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I'll have to, uh, make it

happen here, which I did.

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And I was actually supposed to be

recording the interview that you're about

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to hear with Howie at the time that we

recorded Connections, but Howie was ever

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gracious and, uh, we were texting a little

and he's like, if I had to get bumped by

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anybody, Evan's pretty good guy to get.

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So Wednesday afternoon, Janessa Steinberg

of Panachisa and I headed over to WXXI

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Studios on State Street and I was on an

episode of Connections with Evan Dawson.

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You can find that on YouTube.

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They do film it now, and then you

can also find that on the Evan.

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Dawson Connections podcast, as well as I

think there's an archive online at WXXI.

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org.

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We also have links on all

our social media, if you'd

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like to check that one out.

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It was a wonderful conversation.

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We had the opportunity to talk

about how our business has

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started, where they're going.

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Evan asked some wonderful

questions about incrementalism in.

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Making change happen.

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We got to speak with some of their

listeners and answer some questions

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that they sent in by email.

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It's just, it was so wonderful to see

a community engaged and interested

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in talking about plant-based

eating and entrepreneurship.

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Evan, if you're listening, thank

you so much for the opportunity and

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Megan, the producer for reaching out.

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Uh, it was a great time

and I, uh, would love.

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To do it again, the problem was I

didn't have a podcast for last Sunday.

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And then thankfully Janessa's

husband, Ryan, her partner

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in Panachisa agreed to do it.

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So he snuck one in under the wire

and got you an episode for last

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Sunday and how he was so wonderful

to be flexible, just an amazing guy.

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I've known of him for a long time

and I've cooked for him more times

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than he probably realizes it.

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At different restaurants over the

years, but hearing the story of a

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serial entrepreneur who just has an

infectious spirit, what a gift, right?

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Who would have thunk it six months ago

that I'd be sitting down in how he's

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beautiful home, having a conversation

with him, but thank you all for listening.

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And you're probably going to have to

listen to more of this in the future.

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Just trying something new here, folks.

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Thank you.

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And without further ado.

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Howie Jacobson.

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All right.

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Welcome everybody to this

week's episode of Shelling Peas.

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I'm chef Ryan Jennings of

Sweet Pea Plant Based Kitchen.

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And today I have the distinct pleasure

of speaking with somebody who I haven't

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seen for, for quite some time, but I

can't think of actually a better guest to

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have on the conceit of this show at the

beginning, after working in restaurants

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for as long as I did, was any given

night you would look out into your dining

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room and Maybe one or two folks would

be from the hospitality business on a

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night off, but the rest of the folks are

from all sorts of different industries

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and all have an amazing story to tell.

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And the person I'm speaking with

today has spent a large portion of

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the career telling other people's

stories through their work.

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Today's guest is Howie Jacobson.

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He is the managing partner of Red Rock.

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1886 and his head is a

Rochester Institution.

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I'm so thrilled to be able to

speak with you today and hear

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about your life and career.

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So thank you so much

for being here, Howie.

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Thanks for And hosting me

in your beautiful home.

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Oh, thanks for having me over.

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I was thinking about different ways to

approach all of this, but your origin

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story of becoming an entrepreneur, your

career started with kind of a long line

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of it happening within your family.

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Is that right?

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Howie: Yes.

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Yep.

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My grandparents started a meat

packing business and they literally

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walked around downtown Rochester in

late: 1918

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one piece of something like a pork

loin or a strip loin or a ribeye.

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And they walked from Wilson

Packing Company behind Kodak

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and they walked downtown.

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to restaurants and they

sold what they had.

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My grandmother would get, take

the money and put it in her purse

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and then they would walk and do

this again over and over again.

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Yeah.

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And they built that into a

little business and ended up on

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front street in the mid 1920s.

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And amazing.

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It was a little simpler back then.

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Oh yeah.

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And they.

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built a business around meat.

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Ryan: Right.

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Howie: And we were purveyors

of meat for 40 some odd years.

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Yeah.

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Servicing a lot of food

service in New York state.

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And my dad happened to find a

piece of meat on a prime rib.

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A little flap piece of meat, that he

and a guy in Buffalo who had a needle

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tenderizer, they tenderized that meat

with needles and they made it into a

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steak and sold it to Lum's restaurants.

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Ryan: Mmm.

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Howie: All over the country.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: From Rochester.

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Ryan: Amazing.

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Howie: Yeah.

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And my family's business was sold

in the early: 1970

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: When they moved most of

their meat department to Central.

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Yes.

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And then they sent the

meat back to the stores.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: And we had 60 meat cutters

and they moved everybody over there.

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And I went with the deal for six months

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Ryan: and

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Howie: I was really not ready.

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I was a product of the sixties.

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I was looking to do something

that was not capitalistic.

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I was going to be a gym teacher.

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Oh, wow.

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Yes.

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I decided in college, I was in

food marketing, food science.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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At Cornell.

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At Cornell.

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Yep.

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Howie: And thought I'm going

to do something different.

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Okay.

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And true to how my brain was working

then, I thought that I would be a really

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good swim coach and be a gym teacher.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: And so I World needs more of them.

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Yep.

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I figured I would try that, but as I

was thinking of doing that and I was

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working on my master's at Springfield

college, after I graduated from

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Cornell, my family's business was sold.

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I was fortunate.

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Danny Wegman said to me, you

need to come and work with us.

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Ryan: Yeah,

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Howie: we're going to have a,

we're going to build a big company.

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And it was.

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Awesome.

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That's a, that's a good call to take.

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Oh, it was dynamite.

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And unfortunately my head wasn't in the

right space and I lasted six months and

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I went to see Bob Wegman and said, I'm

just not ready for what's going on here.

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Yeah.

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What did they have you doing?

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Oh, I was in the, oh, I

had a, it was awesome.

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I was in the meat group.

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I was learning the grocery business.

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I was in on the weekly meetings

of how the stores were running.

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Ryan: It

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Howie: was quite an opportunity.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: I.

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Probably just wasn't focused.

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Okay.

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But that happens to me.

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And I took a couple of zigs and zags.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: I ended up going

to Bogota, Columbia.

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Ryan: Did you just,

did you spin the globe?

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And yeah, I

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Howie: figured I would, I was

going to find myself there.

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I don't really know why I don't

speak Spanish, but I started a

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soccer ball business, importing

soccer balls to the United States.

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That is.

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Maybe the most entrepreneurial story

it was out there and I was totally

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had no idea what I was doing and I

was very nervous about buying soccer

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balls that were already blown up.

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Okay, good.

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That's it.

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Damage your product on the way over here.

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Yeah.

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So they normally nested the balls.

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Yeah.

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So you can put like 50 in a box right now.

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I wasn't falling for that.

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trick that they wouldn't be able

to blow them up when they got here.

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That was my attempt at, I'm pretty

smart and I know, I'm going to have

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all the balls blown up ahead of time.

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Only 12 fit in a box.

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But at least I knew that

I could blow them up.

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As they came and I developed a little

business which I had a low attention

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span and it only lasted a couple years

and I took in a partner since I knew I

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was going to do something different and

I went into the restaurant business.

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At Bristol Harbor.

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Yeah, I happen to be living in Naples.

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Right.

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And Bristol Harbor had a

golf course there, obviously.

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Yeah.

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And they had a pro shop.

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Ryan: Mm hmm.

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Howie: And they had a room next to

the pro shop that was empty and Burt

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Wasson, this is a name from the past,

used to run the food service at Bristol

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Mountain when Bristol Mountain started.

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Right.

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And Burt was very good at

Steamship round and green beans

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with almonds, baked potatoes.

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Yep.

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He, this was, he was an expert at this.

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Mm hmm.

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And so every Friday he used to do

a steamship round, baked potatoes,

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green beans with almonds for

the members of Bristol Harbor.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: And they decided the Connecticut

Mutual Insurance owned it at the time.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: They decided they were,

they wanted a restaurant there.

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So I happened to be living in

Naples and somebody said, geez,

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you could probably go up and write

their business plan or whatever.

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Yeah.

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I went up and met with them and because

I went to Cornell, they were like, oh,

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you must know the restaurant business.

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Okay.

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If you, if you think that's great.

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I made a plan and they

gave me this building.

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To put a restaurant in, it's had

30 people at four seats at the bar.

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They put all kitchen appliances

from the condos in the kitchen.

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So I had, yeah, I had four

avocado colored stoves.

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Okay.

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Six refrigerators, all avocado.

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And we were off and running and

I had a nice little menu there.

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And they gave me, they gave

me the opportunity to do this

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for a hundred dollars a month.

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Okay.

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So I had a restaurant.

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Yeah.

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And they gave me a condo to live in.

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Uh huh.

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And they paid me.

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Ryan: Yeah, yeah.

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Howie: But I only had to pay

100 a month for the space.

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And I had a two year deal.

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Anyways, we started the Eagle's Nest.

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Ryan: There you go.

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Howie: And the Eagle's Nest became a hit.

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Ryan: It was

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Howie: a simple menu.

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I decided that I was going to

be the executive chef because

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I know how to run the grill.

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Uh huh.

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How long did that last?

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And it lasted, oh yeah,

the menu was very simple.

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And we did that.

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I had a wonderful sous chef who

actually knew how to cook and we

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had little phyllo dough vegetables

and we had fresh vegetables from

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everybody in the area down there.

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Ryan: There wasn't a whole lot.

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It Around there.

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So I, I could see how it would be a hit.

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Like all of a sudden

there's a nice place to go.

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That the

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Howie: setting is beautiful.

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We had 35 seats.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: Generally a Wednesday

through Saturday night, we did

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150 to 200 dinners, simple menu

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Ryan: trial

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Howie: by fire though.

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Yep.

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We had cheesy Eddie cheesecake.

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He had just started.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Howie: So he, his cheesecake, that

was the only dessert because it

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was easy and it was a lot of fun.

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That lasted two years, and then they

wanted to raise my payment from 100 to

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2, 500 because the place was popular.

336

: 00:15:31

Exactly, yeah.

337

: 00:15:32

And I was like, not gonna do it.

338

: 00:15:34

Ryan: Mm hmm.

339

: 00:15:35

Howie: And my friend John Rose bought the

old schoolhouse in Cheshire on Route 21.

340

: 00:15:40

Oh, sure.

341

: 00:15:40

Ryan: Okay, so that's the company store.

342

: 00:15:42

Sweet Pea delivers a 40 mile

range from our kitchen right now.

343

: 00:15:46

We're getting ready to To expand that,

but I, that 40 mile range, I have been

344

: 00:15:50

to every last little nook and cranny.

345

: 00:15:53

And we actually, we, we run a, a plant

based challenge in January where we work

346

: 00:15:58

with, uh, a partner, small consulting,

and they have all these different

347

: 00:16:03

schools that are under a health plan,

like the Finger Lakes area health plan.

348

: 00:16:07

So we even expand the range.

349

: 00:16:09

during that.

350

: 00:16:09

So in one day this past January, I

went from Rochester to Bloomfield

351

: 00:16:15

to Canandaigua to Rushville to

Shortsville to Dundee, Pen Yen, then

352

: 00:16:22

back up to Walworth, Wayne Central.

353

: 00:16:25

Oh, Red Jacket, Red Creek

out even further there.

354

: 00:16:28

Yeah.

355

: 00:16:29

I've been everywhere.

356

: 00:16:30

Okay.

357

: 00:16:32

Howie: We had so, my friend John

Rose, from Victor, decided to buy the

358

: 00:16:36

schoolhouse that was going up for auction.

359

: 00:16:38

It became the company store.

360

: 00:16:40

And that was going to be downstairs.

361

: 00:16:42

Upstairs, there were four classrooms.

362

: 00:16:43

And so, I was like, I really

have nothing to do at the moment.

363

: 00:16:49

I think I'm going to open up a wine

shop, because I really like wine.

364

: 00:16:53

Okay.

365

: 00:16:53

And I knew I could get a liquor license.

366

: 00:16:55

Sure.

367

: 00:16:55

So I put a wine shop in there.

368

: 00:16:57

Ryan: Yeah.

369

: 00:16:58

Howie: Jacob wine and spirits.

370

: 00:16:59

Yeah.

371

: 00:16:59

Okay.

372

: 00:16:59

Above the liquors above the grocery store.

373

: 00:17:02

And we had a blast.

374

: 00:17:04

And I realized right away that

very few people are probably

375

: 00:17:08

going to come to my store.

376

: 00:17:09

Cause I'm in the middle of nowhere.

377

: 00:17:11

And this was a time

that he had fair trade.

378

: 00:17:13

So the same prices that century had.

379

: 00:17:16

Is what the minimum price was that

I could sell for, but it was 18

380

: 00:17:20

percent on liquor and 25 on wine.

381

: 00:17:23

Ryan: Yeah.

382

: 00:17:23

Howie: So you could actually make

money with a big store with their ads.

383

: 00:17:28

Mm hmm.

384

: 00:17:29

So, and I knew people like to party

and so I used my Car to drop off

385

: 00:17:36

postcards to all the people on

Westlake Road that I would deliver.

386

: 00:17:42

Ryan: Sure.

387

: 00:17:42

Howie: And So give me your phone number.

388

: 00:17:45

Tell me what you want and I'll drop

everything off on Friday So when you get

389

: 00:17:48

to your cottage, you'll have your liquor.

390

: 00:17:50

Brilliant.

391

: 00:17:51

So, the only thing was it was totally

against the law because you had to

392

: 00:17:55

be paid when you sold something.

393

: 00:17:58

I, my concept was you'd

come up on Saturday morning,

394

: 00:18:01

you'll drop off the check.

395

: 00:18:02

Ryan: Yeah.

396

: 00:18:02

Yeah.

397

: 00:18:04

Howie: So, it became, that

became a nice hit for the summer.

398

: 00:18:07

Ryan: Yep.

399

: 00:18:07

Howie: And the nice thing about that

location, you can drive back and forth

400

: 00:18:10

to Pittsburgh and Brighton in the winter.

401

: 00:18:12

Uh

402

: 00:18:12

Ryan: huh.

403

: 00:18:13

Howie: Because most of

the people live up here.

404

: 00:18:15

So I kept all these customers.

405

: 00:18:17

I would call them on Wednesdays,

you're having a party, you're

406

: 00:18:20

having, you've got a business, you're

giving Christmas gifts and all good.

407

: 00:18:25

Basically 20 percent of the, my

business came through the door.

408

: 00:18:29

Everything else was delivery.

409

: 00:18:31

Ryan: Delivery.

410

: 00:18:31

Howie: And it worked.

411

: 00:18:33

Ryan: Yeah.

412

: 00:18:33

Well, it makes things convenient.

413

: 00:18:35

I mean, we wouldn't be in business

if it wasn't for delivery.

414

: 00:18:38

No.

415

: 00:18:38

And I can imagine just back

then that we had to just.

416

: 00:18:43

Take off.

417

: 00:18:44

Oh, it was really fun.

418

: 00:18:45

And you get to talk to all sorts of

interesting people, make connections.

419

: 00:18:48

I mean, how many of those

people did you know for years

420

: 00:18:51

Howie: and years?

421

: 00:18:51

Many.

422

: 00:18:52

Ryan: Yeah.

423

: 00:18:52

Howie: And one of the people that

I knew before this, but was became

424

: 00:18:56

a good customer was Marvin Sands.

425

: 00:19:00

And Marvin Sands, within six months

of me doing this, came to see me.

426

: 00:19:04

Ryan: Yeah.

427

: 00:19:05

Howie: I was delivering wine there every

week and spirits for their parties.

428

: 00:19:09

And he said, you need to.

429

: 00:19:11

Get out of this business.

430

: 00:19:12

You need to come and work for me.

431

: 00:19:14

And I said, no, I'm not doing it.

432

: 00:19:16

I'm going to just do my own thing.

433

: 00:19:18

And I'm an entrepreneur.

434

: 00:19:20

And he said, that's what I am.

435

: 00:19:21

That's what we do at our company.

436

: 00:19:23

So a year and a half of him coming

almost every month, trying to

437

: 00:19:28

convince me to come to work for

him, he said, I have a deal for you.

438

: 00:19:32

It was January.

439

: 00:19:33

Your business is slow.

440

: 00:19:35

Come to work for me for six months.

441

: 00:19:37

Don't sell your store.

442

: 00:19:38

If you don't like it after six

months, no harm, no foul and

443

: 00:19:42

You know, you'll work for me.

444

: 00:19:44

Ryan: Yeah,

445

: 00:19:45

Howie: so I'm like, geez, I

don't have to sell the store.

446

: 00:19:47

I'll do this it'll be a good

part time gig and Great.

447

: 00:19:50

So I spent six months learning the winery.

448

: 00:19:54

I worked At the time

they called it the plant.

449

: 00:19:58

Okay.

450

: 00:19:58

I ended up being able to

change the name to a winery.

451

: 00:20:02

Ryan: Okay.

452

: 00:20:02

Howie: And that was a joke at the time,

but we, so six months later, he came,

453

: 00:20:07

he said, so what are you going to do?

454

: 00:20:08

I said, I'm coming to work.

455

: 00:20:10

So I was there 46 month blocks of time.

456

: 00:20:14

And that was the ongoing joke

because the company in: 1980

457

: 00:20:19

Was about 40 million dollars.

458

: 00:20:21

Yeah, probably 30 million of it

was Richard's Wild Irish Rose,

459

: 00:20:25

Ryan: right?

460

: 00:20:26

Howie: Some of it was J.

461

: 00:20:26

Roger champagne.

462

: 00:20:28

Yeah scuppernong a lot of sweet

wines a lot of high proof alcohol.

463

: 00:20:31

Ryan: Yeah,

464

: 00:20:32

Howie: and over my 46 month blocks of

time 20 years we became quite Uh, a

465

: 00:20:40

factor in the wine and spirits industry.

466

: 00:20:42

Ryan: Yeah, I'd say so.

467

: 00:20:43

Howie: And I was so fortunate to be

sitting around in meetings with Marvin,

468

: 00:20:50

Richard Sands, Rob Sands, and I took

over the sales and marketing department.

469

: 00:20:56

Without a marketing degree, I don't

have a MBA, but I was resourceful.

470

: 00:21:03

Ryan: Well, I,

471

: 00:21:04

Howie: you know,

472

: 00:21:05

Ryan: I mean, we've been talking here

for just a few minutes and in that period

473

: 00:21:09

of time, we go from Cornell University.

474

: 00:21:12

Bogota, Columbia.

475

: 00:21:14

I mean, in going back, your grandparents

meat business, which became your dad's

476

: 00:21:19

meat business, which became Wegman's,

then we're selling soccer balls.

477

: 00:21:24

We open a restaurant, we become the

chef of the restaurant, and then.

478

: 00:21:28

We open up a wine shop, home delivery,

basically found the idea that to

479

: 00:21:34

running sales and marketing for

what becomes Fortune 500 company.

480

: 00:21:38

Howie: Yeah, it was quite invigorating.

481

: 00:21:40

Sure.

482

: 00:21:40

We were builders.

483

: 00:21:41

Ryan: Right.

484

: 00:21:42

Howie: And one interesting thing

for me, which is good in the food,

485

: 00:21:46

so Kevin Zarelli, Kevin Zarelli.

486

: 00:21:47

Yep.

487

: 00:21:48

So in, in 1992, we had bought

Palmason and Taylor wines.

488

: 00:21:54

Ryan: Yeah.

489

: 00:21:55

Howie: So we actually had

real like table wines.

490

: 00:21:58

Ryan: Right.

491

: 00:21:58

Howie: Yeah.

492

: 00:21:58

Really not cork wines,

but we had table wines.

493

: 00:22:01

Ryan: Yes.

494

: 00:22:01

Howie: And our company, we had about

a hundred salespeople at the time.

495

: 00:22:05

Ryan: Mm hmm.

496

: 00:22:06

Howie: When we had sales meetings,

we never did wine tastings.

497

: 00:22:10

And in fact, most people at the

sales meetings drank liquor.

498

: 00:22:14

Ryan: Mm.

499

: 00:22:15

Howie: Because we really didn't

have The wines that went with

500

: 00:22:17

food, it really wasn't our thing.

501

: 00:22:19

And so we were wanting to learn.

502

: 00:22:23

And so I'm like, we're

going to do a wine tasting.

503

: 00:22:26

And so the people that were running

the meeting for me said, that's funny.

504

: 00:22:29

What are you going to do?

505

: 00:22:30

I said, we're going to get Kevin Zarelli.

506

: 00:22:31

He just come out with his book, Windows

of the World, Wines of the World.

507

: 00:22:36

So they said, he's not going to come.

508

: 00:22:38

I said, no, he is.

509

: 00:22:39

Because I met him a couple

of times in the eighties.

510

: 00:22:42

He worked for a wine distributor.

511

: 00:22:45

That sold wild Irish

rose in New York city.

512

: 00:22:49

So I called him up and he was laughing.

513

: 00:22:51

He said, Oh yeah, you

know, blah, blah, blah.

514

: 00:22:53

Um, you guys drink wine at your meetings?

515

: 00:22:56

I said, no, we don't now,

but we're going to start.

516

: 00:22:59

So he said, I'll be happy to come.

517

: 00:23:02

So he came and did a tasting

at our, at our meeting.

518

: 00:23:05

Ryan: Yeah,

519

: 00:23:06

Howie: so I have them bring books, okay,

any autographed books, and we gave these

520

: 00:23:09

to our distributors around the country.

521

: 00:23:12

They're like, we're a

real wine company now.

522

: 00:23:14

Ryan: We

523

: 00:23:14

Howie: had Kevin Zarelli come, and they're

like, the guy from Windows of the World?

524

: 00:23:19

He came to your meeting?

525

: 00:23:21

What did, hey, what did you guys taste?

526

: 00:23:23

I said, well, our first tasting was Wild

ose against Thunderbird in MD: 2020

527

: 00:23:29

It's important to know

what you're selling.

528

: 00:23:31

It's very important, but we

learned a lot about taste profiles.

529

: 00:23:34

And so Kevin was a big influence on

turning the company into realizing

530

: 00:23:40

we're going to be a wine company.

531

: 00:23:42

Ryan: Yeah.

532

: 00:23:42

Howie: And over the next few years, we

bought a lot of brands and Ingleknook,

533

: 00:23:47

Almaden, Palmason, Taylor, Dunwood.

534

: 00:23:49

We had quite a portfolio.

535

: 00:23:50

Yeah.

536

: 00:23:50

And then along the way, obviously

between Barton brands, which was old Mr.

537

: 00:23:55

Boston, right.

538

: 00:23:56

Spirits and Black Velvet.

539

: 00:23:58

Uh huh.

540

: 00:23:58

And in that deal with buying the spirits

company was a paragraph on page 17.

541

: 00:24:05

It could have been on page 15.

542

: 00:24:06

It was one little paragraph

with three sentences.

543

: 00:24:09

Also included are the rights to

Corona, Modelo, Pacifico, Beer,

544

: 00:24:14

Texas, and East of the Mississippi.

545

: 00:24:17

So, and we were sitting

reading all this in a group.

546

: 00:24:22

Okay.

547

: 00:24:22

We're like, I'll look at each other.

548

: 00:24:24

Oh, We're going to get free beer.

549

: 00:24:26

Yeah, that's how important

Corona was at the time.

550

: 00:24:29

Yeah, it wasn't because it was only

about 10 percent of the sales was

551

: 00:24:34

Texas and east of the Mississippi.

552

: 00:24:36

So we were like, great,

we'll get free beer.

553

: 00:24:38

Ryan: Yeah.

554

: 00:24:38

Howie: How cool is that?

555

: 00:24:40

Obviously it became more than free beer.

556

: 00:24:42

Yeah.

557

: 00:24:43

Ryan: I'm struck as you're talking

about getting Kevin's really, it's

558

: 00:24:46

amazing what you can accomplish

when you just ask for what you want.

559

: 00:24:49

Yeah.

560

: 00:24:49

And you just say like, I

have every right to just.

561

: 00:24:52

Dream and ask, right?

562

: 00:24:53

I started this thing and I have

to do it like every week now.

563

: 00:24:56

I just got to figure, I was like, who's

interesting and see if they'll do it.

564

: 00:24:59

But, you know, uh, I'm not sure

if you're familiar with Dr.

565

: 00:25:02

Michael Greger at all.

566

: 00:25:03

He wrote the books like how

not to die, how not to diet.

567

: 00:25:06

He founded this thing

called nutritionfacts.

568

: 00:25:08

org.

569

: 00:25:09

He's one of the biggest names in

lifestyle medicine and his books are New

570

: 00:25:14

York times bestsellers and his website.

571

: 00:25:18

His reach, they touched 10 million

people a quarter with all this stuff.

572

: 00:25:23

So when I started this thing

and I was like writing down a

573

: 00:25:25

list, I was like, maybe I'll ask.

574

: 00:25:27

Never thought they would say yes to that.

575

: 00:25:30

And just sent like a contact form,

like email thing in, the media person

576

: 00:25:34

gets back to me, we send them our

like sweet pea media kit, whatever.

577

: 00:25:38

And next thing you know, like three weeks

later, I'm on a flight down to Virginia.

578

: 00:25:41

I had to go to him.

579

: 00:25:42

Oh, okay.

580

: 00:25:43

But I'm on a flight to Virginia to go

Interview this guy and found an Airbnb.

581

: 00:25:47

He shows up and off to the races.

582

: 00:25:49

It's just kind of, you know, it was

eye opening for me because sometimes

583

: 00:25:52

you think like, you don't want to do

it or don't want to bother anybody.

584

: 00:25:56

You don't have enough

confidence in yourself to do

585

: 00:25:58

it, but then actually do it.

586

: 00:25:59

It doesn't

587

: 00:26:00

Howie: always work.

588

: 00:26:01

No, but the key thing is,

is to have that confidence.

589

: 00:26:03

Yeah.

590

: 00:26:04

You know, you try it.

591

: 00:26:05

The worst that happens is in that case, he

says, no, you had a no before you asked.

592

: 00:26:10

Because he wasn't going to

do it because he didn't know.

593

: 00:26:13

But no, it's, it's interesting

because I feel that way a lot.

594

: 00:26:17

That you can always try,

ask, you have an idea.

595

: 00:26:20

Because everything is

made up of, to me, ideas.

596

: 00:26:23

Ryan: Mm.

597

: 00:26:24

Howie: And like what I do now

with Red Rock: 1886

598

: 00:26:28

and advise a lot of companies.

599

: 00:26:30

Many in the food and beverage industry,

although in many other industries.

600

: 00:26:34

And one reason that people like to

have me in a meeting is I'm not a know

601

: 00:26:39

it all, but I'm really good at ideas.

602

: 00:26:42

Not every idea is a good one, but

they're ideas, they spark something.

603

: 00:26:46

And just having an idea can spark somebody

to say, huh, you know, I don't like

604

: 00:26:51

that, but that made me think of this.

605

: 00:26:54

Um, you know, I know this

person, well, let's call them up.

606

: 00:26:57

You know, when we were doing

the Sun Country Wine Cooler

607

: 00:27:00

commercials in the mid eighties.

608

: 00:27:02

Ryan: Yeah.

609

: 00:27:03

Howie: We had a lot of

celebrities and I know you,

610

: 00:27:06

Ryan: you were gracious enough to show

me your wine cellar and I saw some, and

611

: 00:27:10

Howie: we were kicking around the

idea of, you know, who should we have?

612

: 00:27:13

Cause we had the four tops.

613

: 00:27:15

Ryan: Yep.

614

: 00:27:15

Howie: Okay.

615

: 00:27:16

We had 17 celebrities, but we

were kicking around one day.

616

: 00:27:19

So in the music business, if you had one

person you could pick, who would it be?

617

: 00:27:24

So there were six or

seven of us at the agency.

618

: 00:27:26

Right.

619

: 00:27:26

I happened to be in on these meetings.

620

: 00:27:28

And so we came up with Jagger.

621

: 00:27:31

Would be our number one pick.

622

: 00:27:33

Ryan: That would be a good pick.

623

: 00:27:35

Howie: Let's call him.

624

: 00:27:36

So we, we had one of those little

things in the middle of the table

625

: 00:27:39

and we called the agents and they

said, no, he's not doing commercials.

626

: 00:27:43

We said, here's what we're doing.

627

: 00:27:44

And we sounded like a

bunch of knuckleheads.

628

: 00:27:47

Okay.

629

: 00:27:47

And so, okay, he's off the list.

630

: 00:27:50

Who's next?

631

: 00:27:51

And.

632

: 00:27:52

Honestly, God, three people

immediately said Ringo Starr,

633

: 00:27:55

Oh, let's call his agent.

634

: 00:27:59

We did the first television

commercial with a Beatle Ringo

635

: 00:28:02

Starr said, yes, that's amazing.

636

: 00:28:04

And it was the same group we

caught right from the conversation

637

: 00:28:07

in the conference room.

638

: 00:28:08

They said, yeah, okay.

639

: 00:28:09

He's going to be in Hollywood.

640

: 00:28:10

Why don't you come out in

two weeks and meet with them

641

: 00:28:12

and you can make your pitch.

642

: 00:28:15

So we're like, Oh my God.

643

: 00:28:17

We're going to meet him.

644

: 00:28:19

Yeah.

645

: 00:28:20

Forget about the commercial.

646

: 00:28:21

Yeah, that's a win right there.

647

: 00:28:23

So we did, we met with him

and he and Barbara Bach.

648

: 00:28:27

She sat down with some country wine cooler

was sitting there in the room and she

649

: 00:28:31

said, yeah, I've seen this stuff on TV.

650

: 00:28:33

I said, did you try one?

651

: 00:28:35

No, I don't drink this type of stuff.

652

: 00:28:36

Okay.

653

: 00:28:37

And he came out.

654

: 00:28:38

There's Ringo Starr.

655

: 00:28:39

Ryan: Yeah.

656

: 00:28:40

Howie: And we were told ahead

of time, don't bring any albums.

657

: 00:28:43

Don't ask him for a signature.

658

: 00:28:44

Yeah.

659

: 00:28:45

I'm like, okay.

660

: 00:28:46

And I'm not real big on signatures.

661

: 00:28:48

I just want pictures with somebody.

662

: 00:28:51

So anyways, he agreed right there to the

number and we paid him a million dollars.

663

: 00:28:56

Yeah.

664

: 00:28:56

They said we need a million dollars.

665

: 00:28:57

We have to, we have, they had the

whole thing all laid out, right?

666

: 00:29:00

We have to do it in the grand Bahamas.

667

: 00:29:01

We're building a house.

668

: 00:29:03

We want it deposited here and we're

like, Oh my God, we're going to

669

: 00:29:07

do a commercial with Ringo Starr.

670

: 00:29:09

And we did.

671

: 00:29:10

Yeah.

672

: 00:29:11

I mean, it was unbelievable.

673

: 00:29:13

Here we are, this little company,

Canada Gawine company with this

674

: 00:29:16

crazy brand and all of a sudden

we're in all the news, right?

675

: 00:29:21

Okay.

676

: 00:29:23

A beetle is doing a television commercial.

677

: 00:29:25

Ryan: It's wild to think.

678

: 00:29:26

I didn't, obviously I'm hearing

this for the first time, but

679

: 00:29:28

the way that celebrities and the

culture has shifted a serious.

680

: 00:29:35

Musician or band like that, or

serious actor or anything, it used

681

: 00:29:38

to be like your persona non grata if

you're doing commercials like that.

682

: 00:29:43

Oh, definitely.

683

: 00:29:44

And for you guys, you started it.

684

: 00:29:47

Howie: We made it happen.

685

: 00:29:49

Ryan: It's just amazing.

686

: 00:29:51

Howie: Yeah, we did a

lot of cool celebrities.

687

: 00:29:53

We did, we did Charo.

688

: 00:29:55

Yeah.

689

: 00:29:55

And something about

Grace Jones down there.

690

: 00:29:57

Yeah, Grace Jones, Grace Jones.

691

: 00:30:00

Most people think that

Grace Jones is tall.

692

: 00:30:03

Ryan: Yeah, she's not.

693

: 00:30:04

No.

694

: 00:30:05

Howie: I have a picture.

695

: 00:30:06

I'm she's an inch taller than I am.

696

: 00:30:09

She's five, seven, but she travels

with a lookalike who's six feet tall.

697

: 00:30:15

Come on.

698

: 00:30:16

Seriously.

699

: 00:30:16

Yeah.

700

: 00:30:17

Oh yeah.

701

: 00:30:17

No, this, every time that there's

going to be a photo, he's there

702

: 00:30:20

standing in and then she gets on

a box with her shoes so that, and

703

: 00:30:25

it's really, that's, it was crazy.

704

: 00:30:27

Yeah.

705

: 00:30:27

Charo, we did her television

commercial and she only does things.

706

: 00:30:33

After one in the morning,

you're hiring a television crew.

707

: 00:30:37

Ryan: Yeah, I was going

to say, everybody's,

708

: 00:30:38

Howie: it's the union.

709

: 00:30:39

Oh yeah, because after midnight,

you go into triple over to her.

710

: 00:30:45

She does, she's on at one o'clock and she

comes because she's used to Las Vegas.

711

: 00:30:50

So she is wild.

712

: 00:30:52

Ryan: Yeah.

713

: 00:30:53

Howie: Okay.

714

: 00:30:54

And she's on, we were, she couldn't stop.

715

: 00:30:57

It's pretty crazy, but you know, you

think of like things that you're thinking

716

: 00:31:00

about and when I left Constellation,

717

: 00:31:02

Ryan: yeah

718

: 00:31:03

Howie: in 2000 there was an

opportunity with Genesee beer.

719

: 00:31:07

I was

720

: 00:31:07

Ryan: gonna say what what what made

you Not do the 41st six months.

721

: 00:31:12

Well,

722

: 00:31:12

Howie: I had some health issues.

723

: 00:31:14

Ryan: Yeah,

724

: 00:31:14

Howie: and I really it was time

725

: 00:31:17

Ryan: Yeah,

726

: 00:31:17

Howie: it was time you

727

: 00:31:18

Ryan: had to be going like crazy.

728

: 00:31:19

Yeah time.

729

: 00:31:20

Yeah It was pretty, you don't, you

don't pitch getting Ringo Starr for a

730

: 00:31:24

commercial, having a first beetle to

be on a commercial for a wine cooler.

731

: 00:31:29

And then

732

: 00:31:30

Howie: we were, we were

running pretty hard.

733

: 00:31:31

We changed the company had changed in 96,

97 when we added spirits and beer and we.

734

: 00:31:40

Really almost tripled the size

of the company and honestly, it

735

: 00:31:44

was just got too big for me to

deal with and I had a good run.

736

: 00:31:48

And so an opportunity came, Genesee

Beer announces they're closing the

737

: 00:31:53

brewery and they're leaving Rochester.

738

: 00:31:56

The brands are being sold to a

group in Texas and there was a group

739

: 00:32:01

of us and I'm not a beer drinker.

740

: 00:32:03

A group of us had said, this is crazy.

741

: 00:32:05

They can't leave.

742

: 00:32:06

This is the last brewery here and

this is Rochester and where are

743

: 00:32:10

these people going to go to work?

744

: 00:32:11

So, Tom Hubbard, who happened to

be on the board, was one of the

745

: 00:32:15

guys and John Henderson and myself,

we went to talk to the Whaley's.

746

: 00:32:18

They said, listen, we haven't signed

the deal yet, but if you want to

747

: 00:32:21

match their deal, you can have it.

748

: 00:32:25

And we looked at each other and I'm

like, you know what, we're doing it.

749

: 00:32:29

I knew the distributor network

well, and they knew the

750

: 00:32:33

banking and to raise the money.

751

: 00:32:35

And there was an opportunity

except that most of the people,

752

: 00:32:39

most of the distributors had

seen the brands going down.

753

: 00:32:43

They had lost interest.

754

: 00:32:45

It got, the beer business got very hard

in the mid nineties with a lot of imports.

755

: 00:32:49

And we knew we were going to

have our work cut out for us.

756

: 00:32:54

But we were able to buy it, and,

you know, you look for They probably

757

: 00:32:57

got a pretty good deal on it.

758

: 00:32:58

Yeah, but it still was a lot of money.

759

: 00:33:00

Sure.

760

: 00:33:02

And they were in trouble sales wise.

761

: 00:33:04

So we got to do something big.

762

: 00:33:07

Ryan: Right.

763

: 00:33:07

Howie: For not a lot of money.

764

: 00:33:08

So one thing we did, okay,

was Horses on Parade.

765

: 00:33:12

To get the community to love our beer.

766

: 00:33:16

Yeah.

767

: 00:33:18

And that was a way to get energy

here because people were not

768

: 00:33:21

really into Genesee anymore.

769

: 00:33:23

Ryan: Right.

770

: 00:33:24

Howie: And people didn't realize that

the beer really was really good beer.

771

: 00:33:28

So we had horses on parade.

772

: 00:33:30

So we had a big splash in Rochester

and we were very philanthropic.

773

: 00:33:34

We gave a million dollars to

114 charities in Rochester.

774

: 00:33:38

Ryan: Wow.

775

: 00:33:38

Howie: And it was a big win.

776

: 00:33:40

But we needed more excitement nationally

so that our distributors knew that

777

: 00:33:46

it was worth keeping our beer on.

778

: 00:33:48

Ryan: Right.

779

: 00:33:48

Howie: Because they had already,

when the brewery announced they

780

: 00:33:51

were closing, they were like, great,

beer's not doing well anyways.

781

: 00:33:54

Yeah, we're done.

782

: 00:33:55

So we did One Lap of America,

which, do you know anything

783

: 00:33:59

about One Lap of America?

784

: 00:34:00

That was years ago.

785

: 00:34:01

No, tell me.

786

: 00:34:01

There was some race.

787

: 00:34:03

So the creator of the Cannonball

Run, who wrote the screenplay, Yeah.

788

: 00:34:08

Cannonball run was a race.

789

: 00:34:09

Okay.

790

: 00:34:10

Ryan: Ah, got it.

791

: 00:34:11

Okay.

792

: 00:34:11

Howie: And Brock Yates was the inventor

and the creator of this whole idea.

793

: 00:34:16

Ryan: Yeah.

794

: 00:34:16

Howie: Let's race from New York to LA

nonstop and see who can do it faster.

795

: 00:34:22

And they did this, but he in the,

and he was from Livingston County.

796

: 00:34:26

Ryan: Okay.

797

: 00:34:27

Yeah, yeah.

798

: 00:34:27

So local boy.

799

: 00:34:28

And

800

: 00:34:28

Howie: I knew him.

801

: 00:34:29

He drank Genesee beer.

802

: 00:34:31

And I said, would you do a

one lap of America, which

803

: 00:34:35

would go to different cities?

804

: 00:34:36

They had done a few of these.

805

: 00:34:38

They went to different cities

and the cars drove speed limit.

806

: 00:34:42

And then they did, they

went to local racetracks.

807

: 00:34:44

Ryan: Oh, there you go.

808

: 00:34:45

Yeah.

809

: 00:34:45

Howie: So we did a one lap of America

sponsored by the High Falls Brewing

810

: 00:34:50

Company, which our distributors are like,

One, this is the guy from Cannonball Run.

811

: 00:34:55

How did you get him?

812

: 00:34:57

Okay.

813

: 00:34:57

Well, you know, he happens to

live here and interesting guy.

814

: 00:34:59

He was the editor of

Car and Driver magazine.

815

: 00:35:02

Ryan: Oh, wow.

816

: 00:35:03

Howie: Yeah, he was a real thing.

817

: 00:35:05

Right.

818

: 00:35:05

Yeah, that's a big deal.

819

: 00:35:06

And so he agreed.

820

: 00:35:08

And, you know, the bridge downtown

that they just redid that goes from

821

: 00:35:11

High Falls over to the brewery.

822

: 00:35:13

Yeah.

823

: 00:35:14

We, that was the start of the race.

824

: 00:35:16

We drove the cars over that bridge.

825

: 00:35:17

Over the

826

: 00:35:18

Ryan: bridge.

827

: 00:35:18

It's perfect.

828

: 00:35:20

I miss.

829

: 00:35:20

Being down, I ran the max

restaurants for quite a while.

830

: 00:35:25

That was.

831

: 00:35:26

You know, when I got back there, we

had Max at High Falls and had all

832

: 00:35:28

those different events and fun things.

833

: 00:35:31

It's such a wonderful part of the

city that I always wonder why it

834

: 00:35:35

hadn't, it never got its due really.

835

: 00:35:36

It never got as successful as

I think it should have been.

836

: 00:35:39

Howie: Yeah, it's just Rochester's,

it's so spread out with suburbs that

837

: 00:35:43

you've got to have people come down.

838

: 00:35:46

People don't live around

there to be able to walk over.

839

: 00:35:49

Ryan: And I

840

: 00:35:49

Howie: think that really If that was

in a residential type neighborhood,

841

: 00:35:53

Ryan: you

842

: 00:35:54

Howie: wouldn't be able to get in there,

843

: 00:35:56

Ryan: because people

844

: 00:35:56

Howie: could frequent it more often.

845

: 00:35:58

So yeah, so we had the one lap was great,

and again, I was looking for any way we

846

: 00:36:02

could prove that we're like a big company.

847

: 00:36:05

And so Really out there.

848

: 00:36:07

The salespeople, there were 50

salespeople that worked for Genesee.

849

: 00:36:11

They all had cars that

were 10 or 12 years old.

850

: 00:36:14

They were a mess.

851

: 00:36:16

This is just when the Chrysler

had come out with the PT Cruisers.

852

: 00:36:21

Oh, the PT Cruisers.

853

: 00:36:22

Yeah, yeah.

854

: 00:36:22

So, the PT Cruisers had just come out.

855

: 00:36:25

And I'm like, you know, We should

buy all new, we should buy PT

856

: 00:36:28

cruisers for our whole staff and

we're going to get in fleet magazine.

857

: 00:36:34

So I called fleet magazine.

858

: 00:36:35

I called Rick Dorschel cause he was

a dealer, um, in, uh, out in Wayland.

859

: 00:36:40

Um, he had a Chrysler dealership.

860

: 00:36:42

He ordered 60.

861

: 00:36:44

PT Cruisers, which was the

biggest order at the time.

862

: 00:36:47

We had the biggest fleet in America,

. So we called Fleet Magazine.

863

: 00:36:51

Okay.

864

: 00:36:52

And my partners were like, this

is like so nothing to do with

865

: 00:36:56

the beer business, . Oh no.

866

: 00:36:58

We're gonna be on the

cover of Fleet Magazine.

867

: 00:37:00

Mm-hmm . And all these beer

distributors get Fleet Magazine,

868

: 00:37:03

they're gonna see us on the cover.

869

: 00:37:05

we're gonna be really, because we can't

get written up in any beer magazines.

870

: 00:37:09

Sure.

871

: 00:37:10

No beverage magazines were going to

deal with us because we're like a mess.

872

: 00:37:13

Ryan: Yeah,

873

: 00:37:14

Howie: we were on the

cover of fleet magazine

874

: 00:37:18

And so many of our distributors

were like what beat him drive

875

: 00:37:21

around him, what are you guys doing?

876

: 00:37:23

Listen, we're in business.

877

: 00:37:24

We got brand new cars.

878

: 00:37:26

We're like really hip and We really

were able to get the business turned

879

: 00:37:30

around and you know we're really

very happy that where it is today

880

: 00:37:36

because it Is gone through a couple of

881

: 00:37:39

Ryan: ownerships,

882

: 00:37:39

Howie: but every time it's gone through

an ownership change, it's really.

883

: 00:37:43

Ryan: It's proven further.

884

: 00:37:45

Oh yeah, needed capital and it

885

: 00:37:47

Howie: makes it

886

: 00:37:48

Ryan: able to grow again.

887

: 00:37:49

Howie: Yeah.

888

: 00:37:49

So it's great because the

place is really doing well.

889

: 00:37:52

It's, it's respected.

890

: 00:37:54

Um, a lot of their beers you see

everywhere, even in nice restaurants.

891

: 00:37:58

Oh sure.

892

: 00:37:58

Um, so that's really a real testament

to, uh, keeping the brand alive here.

893

: 00:38:03

Ryan: Yeah.

894

: 00:38:03

Making it like the hometown hero here.

895

: 00:38:05

Yeah.

896

: 00:38:06

Now that, that's

897

: 00:38:07

Howie: a bit, but so then at that point,

898

: 00:38:09

Ryan: you must've gotten

ants in your pants and again,

899

: 00:38:11

need something else to do?

900

: 00:38:13

Howie: Well, you know, and from

the brewery experience, I didn't

901

: 00:38:16

know anything about cans because I

was a wine guy, spirits guy, it's

902

: 00:38:20

all glass or boxes or whatever.

903

: 00:38:23

So I spent some time with

the Ball Corporation.

904

: 00:38:26

I went out and visited their plants and

they couldn't understand what I was doing.

905

: 00:38:32

I'm looking for new ideas.

906

: 00:38:34

They had a keg that they were

trying to come out with aluminum

907

: 00:38:36

keg, small for like home use.

908

: 00:38:39

And so I said, geez, maybe

we'll do some experimenting.

909

: 00:38:43

And they said Wegmans,

because you're from Rochester.

910

: 00:38:46

We'd love to get them to

come out here sometime.

911

: 00:38:50

That was a germ of an idea that

became a business model for me.

912

: 00:38:55

I started bringing, when I left High

Falls and I started bringing grocery

913

: 00:39:00

chains to the Ball Corporation.

914

: 00:39:03

Three day visit, going through their plant

because they needed grocery chains to

915

: 00:39:08

buy their private label cans from Ball.

916

: 00:39:11

Ryan: Yeah.

917

: 00:39:12

Howie: So I made a business out of

connecting grocery chains because I knew

918

: 00:39:18

all these buyers and they were interested

in going to Ball, they're in Denver.

919

: 00:39:24

Ryan: Yeah.

920

: 00:39:24

Howie: They offer a

three day little junket.

921

: 00:39:26

You have a tour, you ski for

a day, then you have a tour

922

: 00:39:29

the third day, and then you go

923

: 00:39:31

Ryan: home.

924

: 00:39:31

That's a fun long weekend of work.

925

: 00:39:33

Howie: Yeah.

926

: 00:39:34

And I realized that people

do things like this.

927

: 00:39:37

They connect.

928

: 00:39:39

Um, and so for about 20 some odd

years, I've been connecting companies

929

: 00:39:44

to ways of learning about their

business or other people's businesses.

930

: 00:39:49

And it's been quite energizing.

931

: 00:39:53

Ryan: I usually ask a question like

this to folks and it's a little bit

932

: 00:39:56

different here, but have you seen a big

shift in the way that people connect?

933

: 00:40:01

Obviously technology has changed,

but you sound like this is

934

: 00:40:03

a very interpersonal thing.

935

: 00:40:06

Howie: And the answer is, yes,

things have really changed.

936

: 00:40:09

Ryan: Yeah.

937

: 00:40:09

Howie: I'm approaching 76 years old.

938

: 00:40:12

Ryan: You'd never know.

939

: 00:40:13

Howie: Most of the people that

I know in the grocery industry

940

: 00:40:16

Ryan: Yeah.

941

: 00:40:17

Howie: have either retired or

are getting ready to retire.

942

: 00:40:20

Mm

943

: 00:40:20

Ryan: hmm.

944

: 00:40:21

Howie: So the connection of being

able to just simply call somebody up.

945

: 00:40:25

Ryan: Right.

946

: 00:40:25

Howie: Okay, they'll take my calls.

947

: 00:40:27

Ryan: Yeah.

948

: 00:40:27

Howie: They know me, they know I'm

a little goofy, I may have a crazy

949

: 00:40:31

idea, but they'd love to listen to it.

950

: 00:40:33

Right.

951

: 00:40:34

So, I had people in every

major grocery chain in America.

952

: 00:40:37

Yeah.

953

: 00:40:38

That would take my calls.

954

: 00:40:39

Sure.

955

: 00:40:39

The last three years, People

have been retiring, and they

956

: 00:40:44

can't pass me off to the new guy.

957

: 00:40:47

Yeah, it's

958

: 00:40:47

Ryan: taken you a lifetime to make that.

959

: 00:40:49

Right, the new

960

: 00:40:50

Howie: guy doesn't know me, plus the

new guy doesn't operate like this.

961

: 00:40:54

They have a person in the beverage, in

the buying group at Winn Dixie, okay?

962

: 00:41:01

You don't talk to a buyer anymore.

963

: 00:41:03

You don't talk to that buying group head.

964

: 00:41:06

You talk to somebody else

who wants a form filled out.

965

: 00:41:10

You send it in through the email and

then they'll get back to you maybe.

966

: 00:41:15

So yes, it's definitely

changed with technology.

967

: 00:41:19

And.

968

: 00:41:20

My feeling is that it's still a people's

business, especially with, you look at

969

: 00:41:25

in the alcoholic beverage business, for

example, there are, there's been a lot

970

: 00:41:29

of consolidation in, in distribution.

971

: 00:41:33

The people that started a lot of these

big companies in the fifties and sixties,

972

: 00:41:38

their families still own the businesses.

973

: 00:41:41

You look at Palmer Foods, okay.

974

: 00:41:44

And then he has his GNC

food company in Syracuse.

975

: 00:41:48

Kip Palmer, fifth generation,

976

: 00:41:51

Ryan: right?

977

: 00:41:51

He's

978

: 00:41:51

Howie: still there.

979

: 00:41:52

Yeah.

980

: 00:41:52

I mean he can get a hold of Kip Palmer

981

: 00:41:54

Ryan: Yes,

982

: 00:41:55

Howie: which is really and it's you

know, really the same in Wegmans, right?

983

: 00:41:59

I mean Danny Colleen they're still

I mean, these are people yeah, and

984

: 00:42:04

you can hopefully make your way to

get there It's what really makes for

985

: 00:42:09

a lot of success in a lot of these

companies still Meyers food markets.

986

: 00:42:13

Yep big grocery chain Hank

Meyer, he's still there

987

: 00:42:16

Ryan: Yeah.

988

: 00:42:17

Howie: H.

989

: 00:42:17

E.

990

: 00:42:17

Butt, the family is still

running the business.

991

: 00:42:20

So for me, that has been a, an

important kind of touch to the past.

992

: 00:42:25

Ryan: Sure.

993

: 00:42:26

Howie: But it is changing with technology.

994

: 00:42:28

Ryan: Yeah.

995

: 00:42:29

And I imagine there's a lot of people

that, you see this a lot in farming.

996

: 00:42:33

These like fourth, fifth generation.

997

: 00:42:35

Farms and the younger ones,

they don't want to do it.

998

: 00:42:38

It's hard.

999

: 00:42:40

It's really hard.

: 1000

00:42:41,212 --> 00:42:44,212

I mean, we see it in the

restaurant industry too.

: 1001

00:42:44,962 --> 00:42:48,102

Um, you know, nobody wants to come up in

the restaurant business the way that I

: 1002

00:42:48,102 --> 00:42:54,182

did, where you were working 80 hours a

week, a hundred hours a week for no money.

: 1003

00:42:54,892 --> 00:42:58,152

Uh, you know, I've been very fortunate

with a lot of the environments I've

: 1004

00:42:58,152 --> 00:43:01,572

been in, but there's also been some

pretty bad ones where you're getting.

: 1005

00:43:02,242 --> 00:43:05,332

yelled at, there's, Lord knows

what's happening behind this,

: 1006

00:43:05,352 --> 00:43:06,632

you know, all that kind of stuff.

: 1007

00:43:06,662 --> 00:43:08,732

And people just don't want

to do it quite as much.

: 1008

00:43:08,732 --> 00:43:11,852

And I think the pandemic had a

lot to do with that because there

: 1009

00:43:11,852 --> 00:43:13,742

was a collective break for some.

: 1010

00:43:14,362 --> 00:43:16,432

And then they're like, Hey,

maybe you can do something else.

: 1011

00:43:16,432 --> 00:43:16,902

It's easier.

: 1012

00:43:17,772 --> 00:43:19,762

Howie: And having, first of

all, being an entrepreneur.

: 1013

00:43:20,187 --> 00:43:21,117

It's really hard.

: 1014

00:43:21,627 --> 00:43:23,287

People think, Oh, you're going

to have your own business.

: 1015

00:43:23,287 --> 00:43:24,227

You're going to be the boss.

: 1016

00:43:24,377 --> 00:43:25,767

Yeah, no, that's very true.

: 1017

00:43:25,797 --> 00:43:26,537

I am the boss.

: 1018

00:43:26,677 --> 00:43:28,647

The problem is that now I have to open up.

: 1019

00:43:29,097 --> 00:43:29,337

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1020

00:43:29,487 --> 00:43:32,837

Howie: And yeah, we, the business

opens at whatever, nine o'clock.

: 1021

00:43:32,837 --> 00:43:34,147

Somebody's got to be there at seven.

: 1022

00:43:34,327 --> 00:43:34,637

Right.

: 1023

00:43:34,797 --> 00:43:36,987

And God forbid you should

be in the food business.

: 1024

00:43:37,037 --> 00:43:37,217

Right.

: 1025

00:43:37,257 --> 00:43:38,377

So you got to get there at five.

: 1026

00:43:38,437 --> 00:43:38,687

Exactly.

: 1027

00:43:38,707 --> 00:43:39,807

Somebody's got to lock up.

: 1028

00:43:39,927 --> 00:43:42,017

Somebody's got to do all this other stuff.

: 1029

00:43:42,267 --> 00:43:44,727

And anything you don't do, you

have to pay somebody to do.

: 1030

00:43:44,777 --> 00:43:45,157

Yeah.

: 1031

00:43:45,597 --> 00:43:47,147

You know, I think of soy boy.

: 1032

00:43:47,357 --> 00:43:47,537

Yeah.

: 1033

00:43:47,587 --> 00:43:47,987

Okay.

: 1034

00:43:47,987 --> 00:43:50,037

So Norman and Andy, okay.

: 1035

00:43:50,037 --> 00:43:55,017

There's a very well known brand that

has been around since the sixties.

: 1036

00:43:55,867 --> 00:44:03,127

Two hippies in the sixties who are

still two hippies today in: 2025

: 1037

00:44:03,167 --> 00:44:07,207

They're still making, to

me, some of the best tofu.

: 1038

00:44:07,422 --> 00:44:08,482

In the world,

: 1039

00:44:08,552 --> 00:44:11,802

Ryan: I use Soyboy

exclusively at Sweet Pea.

: 1040

00:44:11,802 --> 00:44:12,072

We

: 1041

00:44:12,312 --> 00:44:14,442

Howie: sell tens of

dozens of pounds a week.

: 1042

00:44:14,452 --> 00:44:17,382

And they are so concerned about quality.

: 1043

00:44:17,392 --> 00:44:20,442

Yes, they, and who they work with.

: 1044

00:44:20,562 --> 00:44:20,752

Ryan: Oh,

: 1045

00:44:21,842 --> 00:44:24,242

Howie: they are, they're

an amazing little company.

: 1046

00:44:24,832 --> 00:44:28,162

And you know, one of the problems in

the transition of an amazing little

: 1047

00:44:28,162 --> 00:44:30,222

company, there's no transition.

: 1048

00:44:30,402 --> 00:44:30,692

Yeah.

: 1049

00:44:30,822 --> 00:44:32,472

They have the state of the art equipment.

: 1050

00:44:32,832 --> 00:44:38,082

They have an amazing product and they

don't want to, they don't want to change.

: 1051

00:44:38,482 --> 00:44:41,032

Because they don't want a big

company to buy it and say, Oh,

: 1052

00:44:41,042 --> 00:44:42,112

geez, why are you doing this?

: 1053

00:44:42,112 --> 00:44:45,482

We could probably save three cents

over here and four cents here.

: 1054

00:44:45,802 --> 00:44:47,252

It's the way the products are.

: 1055

00:44:47,542 --> 00:44:48,042

Yeah.

: 1056

00:44:48,172 --> 00:44:51,432

But they, there's a lot of

those food companies around.

: 1057

00:44:51,482 --> 00:44:51,802

Yeah.

: 1058

00:44:51,852 --> 00:44:53,852

And they're, they can be successful.

: 1059

00:44:54,332 --> 00:44:58,842

But here are two guys that started

something in the sixties as

: 1060

00:44:59,322 --> 00:45:03,422

hippies making product in their

basement in these white tubs.

: 1061

00:45:03,442 --> 00:45:03,862

Right.

: 1062

00:45:03,922 --> 00:45:05,922

And they're still working.

: 1063

00:45:06,262 --> 00:45:06,282

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1064

00:45:06,372 --> 00:45:06,662

50,

: 1065

00:45:06,722 --> 00:45:08,232

Howie: 60 hours a week.

: 1066

00:45:08,302 --> 00:45:08,672

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1067

00:45:09,462 --> 00:45:10,632

No, it's, it's amazing.

: 1068

00:45:10,632 --> 00:45:15,472

I mean, you do have to, it's one

thing that, uh, and I'm interested

: 1069

00:45:15,472 --> 00:45:18,012

to hear what your take on this too,

because you've worked with a lot more

: 1070

00:45:18,012 --> 00:45:21,532

entrepreneurs and successful business

people than I have at this point,

: 1071

00:45:21,532 --> 00:45:24,052

but that unrelenting work ethic.

: 1072

00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:29,002

Is something that is in every

single one of the successful

: 1073

00:45:29,002 --> 00:45:30,272

entrepreneurs that I've ever met.

: 1074

00:45:30,912 --> 00:45:34,942

And some of them are more on

like the dreamer side of things.

: 1075

00:45:34,942 --> 00:45:37,912

And some of them are more on like the

practical side of things, but both

: 1076

00:45:37,912 --> 00:45:42,202

of those two things have to coexist

because you can't tolerate all the

: 1077

00:45:42,202 --> 00:45:44,082

risk that's involved with all of it.

: 1078

00:45:44,112 --> 00:45:47,492

Unless there's the dream in front of

you, you know, at my desk at Sweepy,

: 1079

00:45:47,632 --> 00:45:53,542

I've got right in front of me up above

is one of the old formula one cars.

: 1080

00:45:56,252 --> 00:45:59,592

And it's got the number one on it and

it's pointed forward and I look at

: 1081

00:45:59,592 --> 00:46:03,952

that every single day and when we've

had some challenges over the course

: 1082

00:46:03,952 --> 00:46:06,982

of the past year, and we're going to

have more, but every time I look at

: 1083

00:46:06,982 --> 00:46:11,072

that and I think forward, and that

is something that you just have to

: 1084

00:46:11,072 --> 00:46:14,492

have if you're going to be successful

in this business or any business.

: 1085

00:46:15,212 --> 00:46:18,682

Has there been like other traits that

you see that it's a common thread between

: 1086

00:46:19,462 --> 00:46:20,912

the successful people you've worked with?

: 1087

00:46:21,242 --> 00:46:24,142

Howie: Um, being able to continue,

: 1088

00:46:26,312 --> 00:46:30,582

yes, going forward and, but being

able to continue, um, is really

: 1089

00:46:30,582 --> 00:46:32,662

important and not get hung up on.

: 1090

00:46:33,012 --> 00:46:38,072

Oh, I got a really big problem

being able to compartmentalize.

: 1091

00:46:38,252 --> 00:46:38,402

Mm.

: 1092

00:46:38,492 --> 00:46:40,952

Um, one of my boys is a entrepreneur.

: 1093

00:46:41,042 --> 00:46:44,432

Mm-hmm . He has a, he went to the

School of American Crafts at RIT.

: 1094

00:46:44,492 --> 00:46:44,702

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1095

00:46:45,032 --> 00:46:48,392

Howie: And he has a build

and design wood shop.

: 1096

00:46:48,692 --> 00:46:48,812

Yeah.

: 1097

00:46:48,812 --> 00:46:52,827

In Miami, Uhhuh . And he wanted

to have his own business.

: 1098

00:46:53,632 --> 00:46:55,302

Okay, and he's a craftsman.

: 1099

00:46:55,352 --> 00:46:55,662

Ryan: Yeah,

: 1100

00:46:55,712 --> 00:46:58,902

Howie: which to me is really

difficult because if you're always

: 1101

00:46:58,912 --> 00:47:03,302

thinking about great ideas for

Furniture and trying to sell it.

: 1102

00:47:03,652 --> 00:47:04,932

They generally don't work.

: 1103

00:47:05,372 --> 00:47:08,492

Yeah, because he's a whole lot

different than just being a chef.

: 1104

00:47:08,622 --> 00:47:09,492

Exactly Yeah.

: 1105

00:47:09,542 --> 00:47:09,912

Okay.

: 1106

00:47:09,912 --> 00:47:11,542

So how do you what do you need?

: 1107

00:47:11,632 --> 00:47:14,202

You know, do you have a

good person in the front?

: 1108

00:47:14,612 --> 00:47:18,042

And I see this with a lot of

people that we know, okay, do they

: 1109

00:47:18,042 --> 00:47:19,482

have a good person in the front?

: 1110

00:47:20,052 --> 00:47:23,372

Most of these guys have a good

person in the front because you

: 1111

00:47:23,372 --> 00:47:27,292

can't be in both places and you

have to have somebody out there.

: 1112

00:47:27,292 --> 00:47:29,912

Kupalo's a good example.

: 1113

00:47:29,942 --> 00:47:31,352

Tony's a good example.

: 1114

00:47:31,412 --> 00:47:36,492

And if you have that, you can do

your craft and you can handle really

: 1115

00:47:36,502 --> 00:47:38,022

where the issues are going to be.

: 1116

00:47:38,022 --> 00:47:41,702

You can handle your issues, but if you

try to do it all, you're going to choke

: 1117

00:47:41,702 --> 00:47:43,602

yourself and you're not going to make it.

: 1118

00:47:44,112 --> 00:47:47,572

And I think that's, that's

something that being able to just.

: 1119

00:47:48,202 --> 00:47:50,852

Make sure you can keep going is important.

: 1120

00:47:51,002 --> 00:47:53,872

Ryan: And knowing what you don't know

and finding somebody to help you.

: 1121

00:47:54,812 --> 00:47:55,652

Howie: Very important.

: 1122

00:47:55,692 --> 00:47:56,132

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1123

00:47:56,192 --> 00:47:57,472

Our buddy there, Pauly Guglielmo.

: 1124

00:47:58,302 --> 00:48:00,082

I feel like I talk about him on the show.

: 1125

00:48:02,982 --> 00:48:05,512

Well, we're promoting the Lunch

Adore podcast network, which

: 1126

00:48:05,512 --> 00:48:06,782

you're all listening to right now.

: 1127

00:48:07,202 --> 00:48:10,672

But you know, he, he had an episode

of his show at the end of last year,

: 1128

00:48:10,672 --> 00:48:14,042

where he was talking about like the

five stages of entrepreneurship.

: 1129

00:48:14,332 --> 00:48:16,812

I won't go through all of

it, but like, The first one

: 1130

00:48:16,822 --> 00:48:17,952

you're doing everything right.

: 1131

00:48:17,952 --> 00:48:19,462

You can't afford to pay anybody yet.

: 1132

00:48:19,472 --> 00:48:20,542

It's proof of concept.

: 1133

00:48:20,542 --> 00:48:25,452

You're trying to like, just figure out

what it is you're selling and who's

: 1134

00:48:25,452 --> 00:48:28,182

going to buy it and how to be successful.

: 1135

00:48:28,222 --> 00:48:32,872

And then once you've got that and you

hire people and you start building the

: 1136

00:48:32,882 --> 00:48:36,412

team, it's probably not going to be

anybody who's really going to help you.

: 1137

00:48:36,472 --> 00:48:39,282

It's probably just going to be people who

are helping get some of the work done.

: 1138

00:48:39,662 --> 00:48:42,742

But then that next big step

in hiring is when you're.

: 1139

00:48:43,112 --> 00:48:44,842

All right, here's what we are.

: 1140

00:48:44,852 --> 00:48:45,922

This is the brand.

: 1141

00:48:46,022 --> 00:48:47,962

This is what I think we

need to move forward.

: 1142

00:48:48,282 --> 00:48:49,942

This is what I don't know how to do.

: 1143

00:48:51,082 --> 00:48:52,562

And this is the person I'm going to hire.

: 1144

00:48:53,012 --> 00:48:55,372

And then that's a whole

nother skill set in itself.

: 1145

00:48:55,462 --> 00:48:55,792

Right?

: 1146

00:48:56,272 --> 00:49:01,582

Howie: Oh, it's a huge skill set and it

can be very difficult because the sense

: 1147

00:49:01,582 --> 00:49:06,222

is I'm now I'm giving something up and

it's not going to be done the way I want

: 1148

00:49:06,222 --> 00:49:06,352

Ryan: it.

: 1149

00:49:06,952 --> 00:49:10,032

Howie: You have to be able to

live with, it may not be done.

: 1150

00:49:10,407 --> 00:49:15,287

Exactly like how I want it, but

I need to be able to do what I'm

: 1151

00:49:15,287 --> 00:49:19,857

good at a very good example that

is my best friend in life from a.

: 1152

00:49:20,272 --> 00:49:23,652

Sixty year old friend, John

Ingle, from Heron Hill Winery.

: 1153

00:49:23,662 --> 00:49:23,932

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1154

00:49:24,212 --> 00:49:26,332

Howie: John started growing grapes.

: 1155

00:49:26,392 --> 00:49:27,552

That's really all he wanted to do.

: 1156

00:49:27,622 --> 00:49:27,882

Right.

: 1157

00:49:28,392 --> 00:49:32,612

He had no interest in having a winery,

no interest in doing any of that.

: 1158

00:49:32,672 --> 00:49:37,002

He just wanted to grow grapes, and he

wanted to learn the craft of farming.

: 1159

00:49:37,142 --> 00:49:37,412

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1160

00:49:37,842 --> 00:49:41,142

Howie: And it worked out

okay for three or four years.

: 1161

00:49:41,142 --> 00:49:41,352

Yeah.

: 1162

00:49:41,907 --> 00:49:46,457

Until the price of grapes went

down so low, he said, you know,

: 1163

00:49:46,487 --> 00:49:47,877

I've worked the whole year.

: 1164

00:49:48,517 --> 00:49:48,847

Right.

: 1165

00:49:48,847 --> 00:49:50,217

This is what you're going to pay me?

: 1166

00:49:50,357 --> 00:49:50,627

Ryan: Right.

: 1167

00:49:50,817 --> 00:49:52,517

Howie: And he was fortunate.

: 1168

00:49:52,517 --> 00:49:53,317

He said, you know what?

: 1169

00:49:53,357 --> 00:49:54,497

We're going to open a winery.

: 1170

00:49:54,547 --> 00:49:54,847

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1171

00:49:55,307 --> 00:49:59,037

Howie: And it became a problem

for him because I don't want to.

: 1172

00:49:59,427 --> 00:50:00,207

Deal with the winery.

: 1173

00:50:00,777 --> 00:50:00,977

Yeah.

: 1174

00:50:00,977 --> 00:50:02,017

I just want to grow my grapes.

: 1175

00:50:02,017 --> 00:50:05,407

And now all of a sudden we have

another thing, but he's had,

: 1176

00:50:05,737 --> 00:50:07,547

um, struggles over the years.

: 1177

00:50:07,627 --> 00:50:09,297

Totally relate to that one.

: 1178

00:50:09,527 --> 00:50:11,087

Somebody in the winery.

: 1179

00:50:11,097 --> 00:50:12,637

So somebody is going to make the wine.

: 1180

00:50:13,627 --> 00:50:14,347

Okay, great.

: 1181

00:50:14,347 --> 00:50:14,837

Well, wait a minute.

: 1182

00:50:14,847 --> 00:50:17,777

I want to taste the wine

because this wine is going in a

: 1183

00:50:17,777 --> 00:50:19,347

bottle that has my name on it.

: 1184

00:50:19,357 --> 00:50:19,637

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1185

00:50:19,707 --> 00:50:23,087

Howie: So now all of a sudden

I'm, I know my grapes are great.

: 1186

00:50:23,517 --> 00:50:23,917

Okay.

: 1187

00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:25,427

Cause he knows every vine.

: 1188

00:50:25,657 --> 00:50:27,137

I mean, he is a farmer.

: 1189

00:50:27,582 --> 00:50:34,522

To this day, he's been a farmer for 60

years and he has been learning and he,

: 1190

00:50:34,522 --> 00:50:39,662

it's a work in progress and he's still

learning to hand off certain things.

: 1191

00:50:39,722 --> 00:50:43,662

You get very capable people doing

this and learning, but as much as,

: 1192

00:50:43,902 --> 00:50:45,802

uh, he continues to want to learn.

: 1193

00:50:46,097 --> 00:50:51,197

So he's continuing to learn, but

he also is growing the grapes.

: 1194

00:50:51,237 --> 00:50:51,567

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1195

00:50:51,667 --> 00:50:56,037

Howie: I mean, he is right on

it, which is fascinating because

: 1196

00:50:56,187 --> 00:50:57,107

that's what he's good at.

: 1197

00:50:57,117 --> 00:50:58,097

And he knows that.

: 1198

00:50:58,507 --> 00:51:00,537

And he stayed with that and fine tuned.

: 1199

00:51:00,867 --> 00:51:04,812

They're very sustainable and

they've Do a lot of solar and there,

: 1200

00:51:04,942 --> 00:51:06,672

he's very aware of temperature.

: 1201

00:51:06,762 --> 00:51:10,122

I mean, if you call them right now,

he could tell you the temperature in

: 1202

00:51:10,172 --> 00:51:13,912

every row of grapes that he has planted.

: 1203

00:51:14,072 --> 00:51:16,452

I mean, he's a little neurotic

about it, but it's important to him.

: 1204

00:51:16,732 --> 00:51:18,002

Ryan: Well, it's an

important to the grapes.

: 1205

00:51:18,032 --> 00:51:21,722

It's a respect for the product

and the care that goes into that.

: 1206

00:51:21,882 --> 00:51:25,042

I've gotten to be unfortunate

to be a little friendly with

: 1207

00:51:25,042 --> 00:51:26,592

Rick Rainey from Forge Cellars.

: 1208

00:51:27,392 --> 00:51:30,912

And I, I went down to, to

interview him for this.

: 1209

00:51:30,912 --> 00:51:33,292

And, uh, he actually

came up, uh, last month.

: 1210

00:51:33,722 --> 00:51:37,452

We had all Forge wines for the interval

dinner that we do at max each month.

: 1211

00:51:38,042 --> 00:51:39,522

And, uh, we got one coming up.

: 1212

00:51:39,787 --> 00:51:40,887

Um, March 10th.

: 1213

00:51:41,237 --> 00:51:45,697

And, um, yeah, I just remember him sitting

there as before we were interviewed, of

: 1214

00:51:45,697 --> 00:51:49,147

course, he was like completely present

when we were talking and everything, but

: 1215

00:51:49,147 --> 00:51:52,917

before and after he got right on his phone

and was looking at the temperature, right?

: 1216

00:51:53,167 --> 00:51:55,197

Because they were in the

harvest season and the weather.

: 1217

00:51:55,612 --> 00:51:58,552

And just all of whatever different

apps he's got to measure all

: 1218

00:51:58,552 --> 00:52:01,232

these different things and just

all the different parts of it.

: 1219

00:52:01,272 --> 00:52:02,442

It really is quite something.

: 1220

00:52:02,702 --> 00:52:06,432

Howie: Yeah, but it is very, you

know, it's all so similar to if

: 1221

00:52:06,432 --> 00:52:11,112

you're really into what you do and

you used a good example with a chef.

: 1222

00:52:11,642 --> 00:52:12,002

Okay.

: 1223

00:52:12,092 --> 00:52:18,572

Because I remember so many times over the

years seeing Jerry Varasi or Mark Cupolo.

: 1224

00:52:19,352 --> 00:52:24,422

They're at the market at five

30, six o'clock in the morning.

: 1225

00:52:24,652 --> 00:52:25,612

What are you guys doing here?

: 1226

00:52:25,922 --> 00:52:28,252

Oh, I'm getting the freshest

vegetables right now because, you

: 1227

00:52:28,252 --> 00:52:29,772

know, we got, uh, dinner tonight.

: 1228

00:52:29,802 --> 00:52:30,402

We got whatever.

: 1229

00:52:30,402 --> 00:52:32,732

And I'm like, it's six

o'clock in the morning.

: 1230

00:52:32,742 --> 00:52:33,002

Yeah.

: 1231

00:52:33,192 --> 00:52:33,462

Yeah.

: 1232

00:52:33,482 --> 00:52:34,272

What's the problem?

: 1233

00:52:34,302 --> 00:52:35,282

We're a strange breed.

: 1234

00:52:35,462 --> 00:52:35,742

Yeah.

: 1235

00:52:36,192 --> 00:52:39,042

But it's, but that just shows

you when you go to a place that

: 1236

00:52:39,042 --> 00:52:41,822

has that type of commitment.

: 1237

00:52:42,322 --> 00:52:42,632

Okay.

: 1238

00:52:42,632 --> 00:52:43,752

And concentration.

: 1239

00:52:43,942 --> 00:52:44,362

Okay.

: 1240

00:52:44,512 --> 00:52:45,672

It's a real craft.

: 1241

00:52:46,092 --> 00:52:49,112

And if you have a real craft

and you're into it, you're

: 1242

00:52:49,122 --> 00:52:51,322

going to be living your craft.

: 1243

00:52:51,877 --> 00:52:52,457

All day.

: 1244

00:52:52,637 --> 00:52:52,937

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1245

00:52:52,977 --> 00:52:53,347

It doesn't

: 1246

00:52:53,347 --> 00:52:56,997

Howie: mean that you're, you're not going

to be interested or have other, you know,

: 1247

00:52:57,007 --> 00:53:02,447

parts of your life, but that's a pretty

important piece that is always with you.

: 1248

00:53:02,807 --> 00:53:03,467

Ryan: Yes.

: 1249

00:53:04,057 --> 00:53:07,727

The first time I talked to Mark, it

was on the basement phone at Eastman

: 1250

00:53:07,747 --> 00:53:11,567

Place, which I know you're familiar

with that place a lot, but something

: 1251

00:53:11,567 --> 00:53:13,617

about him that I always really.

: 1252

00:53:13,832 --> 00:53:18,672

Respected was that he can, and Tony is

this way too, in particular, I don't

: 1253

00:53:18,672 --> 00:53:23,402

know Jerry personally, but there's

always the drive to keep doing more

: 1254

00:53:23,412 --> 00:53:27,212

for not just for your business before

the craft a couple of months ago,

: 1255

00:53:27,882 --> 00:53:29,692

Keith Myers has public provisions.

: 1256

00:53:29,712 --> 00:53:33,612

Now he's expanded that he's another

perfect example of this, you know, like.

: 1257

00:53:34,277 --> 00:53:38,987

You're, you got a good job and you're

just like, I'm going to bake bread and

: 1258

00:53:38,987 --> 00:53:42,137

then I'm doing pretty well, but I want

to do a little bit more, I don't have

: 1259

00:53:42,137 --> 00:53:44,807

a restaurant, I'll take over the space

and do it, all this kind of stuff.

: 1260

00:53:45,337 --> 00:53:51,357

But he and Mark had a dinner at Public

Provisions where there's such a wonderful

: 1261

00:53:51,357 --> 00:53:55,207

concept, like everybody had the same

main course, but then everything

: 1262

00:53:55,207 --> 00:53:56,817

else was set up as like a buffet.

: 1263

00:53:57,572 --> 00:54:00,772

So when you got there, you, they made

all sorts of different cool stuff.

: 1264

00:54:00,802 --> 00:54:04,822

It was obviously an Italian bent because

that's what Mark's focus is, but you know,

: 1265

00:54:04,822 --> 00:54:11,222

there's these like wonderful cold seafood

salads and Zeppoli and like different,

: 1266

00:54:11,372 --> 00:54:12,922

all sorts of different cool things.

: 1267

00:54:12,962 --> 00:54:14,572

And you know, I'm telling them how.

: 1268

00:54:14,677 --> 00:54:16,877

What a great time it was and

how much we were enjoying it.

: 1269

00:54:16,877 --> 00:54:20,857

And Mark was telling me, he's like,

yeah, this morning I was going out

: 1270

00:54:20,867 --> 00:54:22,297

to this place in the Finger Lakes.

: 1271

00:54:22,297 --> 00:54:23,637

We're doing a party out there.

: 1272

00:54:23,637 --> 00:54:25,567

I had to go see what

the kitchen looked like.

: 1273

00:54:25,617 --> 00:54:29,917

I was like, you did that this morning

and then you did this and I'm sure

: 1274

00:54:29,917 --> 00:54:32,397

you're going to go back to the

restaurant, but we're all like that.

: 1275

00:54:32,507 --> 00:54:33,137

It's great.

: 1276

00:54:33,147 --> 00:54:35,067

My wife's going to kill me.

: 1277

00:54:35,137 --> 00:54:36,647

I mean, it started this podcast.

: 1278

00:54:36,707 --> 00:54:38,247

Like I needed another thing to do,

: 1279

00:54:39,337 --> 00:54:41,317

Howie: but it's a wonderful

thing for the community.

: 1280

00:54:41,802 --> 00:54:46,032

to have you have people on to share

stories about the foundation of Rochester.

: 1281

00:54:46,152 --> 00:54:46,472

Yeah.

: 1282

00:54:46,492 --> 00:54:46,722

Okay.

: 1283

00:54:46,742 --> 00:54:50,822

And where we are today, I

mean, you're doing something

: 1284

00:54:50,822 --> 00:54:52,472

at Sweet Pea that is terrific.

: 1285

00:54:52,992 --> 00:54:55,952

And it's very difficult, obviously,

because you're in a, you're

: 1286

00:54:55,952 --> 00:55:00,562

in a segment of food, which

not everybody is experiencing.

: 1287

00:55:00,812 --> 00:55:04,887

And I think one of the things for me,

I'm not a Vegetarian and not vegan,

: 1288

00:55:05,257 --> 00:55:11,227

but that doesn't mean that I can't

enjoy a meal without fish or meat.

: 1289

00:55:11,367 --> 00:55:11,657

Ryan: Right.

: 1290

00:55:12,067 --> 00:55:13,427

Howie: I eat in all segments.

: 1291

00:55:13,537 --> 00:55:13,747

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1292

00:55:13,807 --> 00:55:14,647

Howie: I like food.

: 1293

00:55:14,917 --> 00:55:15,257

Right.

: 1294

00:55:15,347 --> 00:55:15,677

Okay.

: 1295

00:55:15,807 --> 00:55:16,407

I like food.

: 1296

00:55:16,417 --> 00:55:17,257

I like wine.

: 1297

00:55:17,307 --> 00:55:18,157

They go together.

: 1298

00:55:18,527 --> 00:55:21,367

Um, and, you know, you're

a happy, healthy guy.

: 1299

00:55:21,407 --> 00:55:23,777

You seem like you take

pretty good care of yourself.

: 1300

00:55:23,807 --> 00:55:24,857

Yeah, I do.

: 1301

00:55:24,877 --> 00:55:25,367

And I.

: 1302

00:55:25,427 --> 00:55:26,747

I grew up eating meat.

: 1303

00:55:26,807 --> 00:55:29,237

It was the foundation

of your family business.

: 1304

00:55:29,487 --> 00:55:30,197

We never ate.

: 1305

00:55:30,237 --> 00:55:34,067

I used to go to my friend's houses

and they would have casseroles and I

: 1306

00:55:34,067 --> 00:55:35,837

would, you know, tuna noodle casserole.

: 1307

00:55:36,027 --> 00:55:39,067

I would love to go to my friend's

house and have tuna noodle casserole.

: 1308

00:55:39,277 --> 00:55:43,317

And their moms would say, he loves

my, Oh my God, this is amazing.

: 1309

00:55:43,327 --> 00:55:45,667

So really we don't get this at home.

: 1310

00:55:46,077 --> 00:55:48,057

And they would say, what do

you, you don't get this at home?

: 1311

00:55:48,067 --> 00:55:49,347

No, we never have casseroles.

: 1312

00:55:49,827 --> 00:55:50,067

Why?

: 1313

00:55:50,167 --> 00:55:51,237

What do you usually eat?

: 1314

00:55:51,347 --> 00:55:57,427

Oh, we have prime rib lamb chops because

we didn't spend money on food, right?

: 1315

00:55:57,427 --> 00:55:58,237

We just had meat.

: 1316

00:55:58,357 --> 00:55:58,617

Yeah.

: 1317

00:55:58,617 --> 00:55:59,610

We didn't have pizza.

: 1318

00:55:59,610 --> 00:56:03,580

Not that I, not that I feel deprived,

but that's not how we ate at home.

: 1319

00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:03,828

Right.

: 1320

00:56:03,828 --> 00:56:04,076

Yeah.

: 1321

00:56:04,076 --> 00:56:04,324

Yeah.

: 1322

00:56:04,324 --> 00:56:04,821

Ryan: My mother

: 1323

00:56:04,821 --> 00:56:11,067

Howie: made a 20 pound prime rib every

Sunday that went into the refrigerator.

: 1324

00:56:14,427 --> 00:56:18,387

So if you needed something when you came

home, or we didn't have, you know, we

: 1325

00:56:18,387 --> 00:56:21,997

were in a rush to go to a soccer game or

something, carve off a piece of prime rib.

: 1326

00:56:25,577 --> 00:56:26,287

That's amazing.

: 1327

00:56:26,387 --> 00:56:26,627

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1328

00:56:26,627 --> 00:56:28,397

So now if you want to have a.

: 1329

00:56:28,512 --> 00:56:29,882

Vegetarian meal probably wouldn't hurt.

: 1330

00:56:30,252 --> 00:56:30,942

Howie: Exactly.

: 1331

00:56:31,162 --> 00:56:32,502

And so I don't eat a lot of meat.

: 1332

00:56:32,502 --> 00:56:37,102

I enjoy fish, but I love vegetables.

: 1333

00:56:37,132 --> 00:56:38,912

We eat a lot of vegetables and rice.

: 1334

00:56:39,212 --> 00:56:39,502

This is so

: 1335

00:56:39,502 --> 00:56:40,102

Ryan: interesting.

: 1336

00:56:40,152 --> 00:56:40,552

Howie: Oh,

: 1337

00:56:40,682 --> 00:56:45,062

Ryan: I we're in such a unique position

to be cooking in this, in this part

: 1338

00:56:45,082 --> 00:56:49,292

of the state and in the Finger Lakes

region, I've been getting vegetables.

: 1339

00:56:49,332 --> 00:56:50,802

I mean, we get them from

a lot of different places.

: 1340

00:56:50,802 --> 00:56:53,742

We have to, cause we make a lot of them,

but I've been working with Patty and

: 1341

00:56:53,742 --> 00:56:55,992

Steve from Full Moon Farm out in Ontario.

: 1342

00:56:56,627 --> 00:56:58,527

For the whole time that I've

been here in Rochester, so I

: 1343

00:56:58,527 --> 00:57:00,537

got back, it's 20, 20 years now.

: 1344

00:57:01,512 --> 00:57:04,762

And it's world class stuff and

Tony was actually their first

: 1345

00:57:04,792 --> 00:57:08,362

customer when they started growing

tomatoes, whatever, 30 years ago.

: 1346

00:57:08,952 --> 00:57:12,372

So it's just always, yeah, I

always feel very privileged to be

: 1347

00:57:12,372 --> 00:57:16,142

doing it and I really don't think

there's much better places to do it.

: 1348

00:57:16,172 --> 00:57:19,582

Even though right now there's not much

coming out of the ground around here.

: 1349

00:57:19,722 --> 00:57:22,532

Howie: No, but this is

a winter from the 60s.

: 1350

00:57:22,562 --> 00:57:22,902

Ryan: Yeah,

: 1351

00:57:22,932 --> 00:57:23,672

Howie: it's been wild.

: 1352

00:57:24,122 --> 00:57:26,392

When I grew up here, this is what we had.

: 1353

00:57:26,522 --> 00:57:29,832

A storm like yesterday would

have meant that everyone would

: 1354

00:57:29,832 --> 00:57:31,302

have driven to Bristol Mountain.

: 1355

00:57:31,302 --> 00:57:31,422

Yeah.

: 1356

00:57:32,357 --> 00:57:33,437

Oh, there's a big storm.

: 1357

00:57:33,477 --> 00:57:34,777

We have to drive to Bristol.

: 1358

00:57:35,167 --> 00:57:36,177

It's like, what?

: 1359

00:57:36,387 --> 00:57:39,817

You know, when you're going 64

and 5 and 20, it's so dangerous.

: 1360

00:57:40,147 --> 00:57:42,067

Um, of course that's what you would do.

: 1361

00:57:43,867 --> 00:57:45,167

Ryan: Yeah, we're, we're built for it.

: 1362

00:57:45,267 --> 00:57:46,807

I know we got to land the plane here.

: 1363

00:57:47,257 --> 00:57:48,117

We usually.

: 1364

00:57:49,207 --> 00:57:52,037

Talk a little bit about

kind of what's next.

: 1365

00:57:52,157 --> 00:57:56,077

And I know you work with a lot of

small and medium sized companies

: 1366

00:57:56,087 --> 00:58:00,437

now, and you're still connecting

them with kind of the next steps.

: 1367

00:58:00,437 --> 00:58:04,457

And I was wondering if you're going to

give a free piece of advice to these

: 1368

00:58:04,537 --> 00:58:07,357

young entrepreneurs after you've done.

: 1369

00:58:07,577 --> 00:58:11,037

So much in all sorts of different

fields and found success all over there.

: 1370

00:58:11,417 --> 00:58:14,717

What's the first thing you say to them

and the last thing you say to them?

: 1371

00:58:16,727 --> 00:58:18,797

Howie: First of all, don't give up.

: 1372

00:58:19,817 --> 00:58:23,367

If you try something and it doesn't

work, you can always try something else.

: 1373

00:58:23,877 --> 00:58:27,197

And if somebody says that was

tried before, it was tried before,

: 1374

00:58:27,197 --> 00:58:28,407

but it was at another time.

: 1375

00:58:28,767 --> 00:58:30,887

It could have been last 20 years ago.

: 1376

00:58:30,927 --> 00:58:34,187

You can always twist

to make something work.

: 1377

00:58:34,227 --> 00:58:34,897

It's hard.

: 1378

00:58:35,282 --> 00:58:37,462

Because you may have to

keep trying on something.

: 1379

00:58:37,702 --> 00:58:43,202

Keep trying, but also try to find

people that are smarter than you.

: 1380

00:58:43,762 --> 00:58:48,172

That are doing something that may not be

what you want to do, but they're doing

: 1381

00:58:48,172 --> 00:58:53,262

something that is totally different, but

they have the same bug that you have.

: 1382

00:58:53,607 --> 00:58:55,407

They had that same spark.

: 1383

00:58:55,767 --> 00:58:58,287

I love meeting with people that

are in different businesses.

: 1384

00:58:58,447 --> 00:59:01,857

And I work with, I have customers

in the tool and dye business.

: 1385

00:59:02,267 --> 00:59:06,747

And they, when I pitched them

over the 20 years ago, I pitched

: 1386

00:59:06,747 --> 00:59:09,137

a Rochester tool and dye.

: 1387

00:59:09,227 --> 00:59:13,407

Uh, industry, uh, manufacturers

in Rochester and they were like,

: 1388

00:59:13,727 --> 00:59:15,297

what do you know about what we do?

: 1389

00:59:15,597 --> 00:59:17,137

You're a beer and wine guy.

: 1390

00:59:17,597 --> 00:59:17,927

Okay.

: 1391

00:59:18,047 --> 00:59:19,007

Are you going to bring samples?

: 1392

00:59:19,007 --> 00:59:19,947

We're going to do a tasting.

: 1393

00:59:20,307 --> 00:59:22,947

No, I want to see what

your factory looks like.

: 1394

00:59:22,957 --> 00:59:23,267

Yeah.

: 1395

00:59:23,447 --> 00:59:26,587

So I would have, and I do this a

lot and I would, this is another

: 1396

00:59:26,587 --> 00:59:27,847

thing I would advise people to do.

: 1397

00:59:28,307 --> 00:59:28,727

Take.

: 1398

00:59:29,072 --> 00:59:31,182

Tours of people's businesses.

: 1399

00:59:31,632 --> 00:59:33,222

Don't meet with them in their offices.

: 1400

00:59:33,712 --> 00:59:34,412

Take a tour.

: 1401

00:59:34,632 --> 00:59:37,132

Put on a hard hat and walk around.

: 1402

00:59:37,492 --> 00:59:41,942

See what people are doing and how people

are making something work because you can

: 1403

00:59:41,942 --> 00:59:46,932

spark something and I was very fortunate

because I have been in so many factories.

: 1404

00:59:46,942 --> 00:59:47,172

Yeah.

: 1405

00:59:47,242 --> 00:59:47,592

Okay.

: 1406

00:59:47,592 --> 00:59:49,095

That's how the deal with ball.

: 1407

00:59:49,095 --> 00:59:49,327

Sure.

: 1408

00:59:49,327 --> 00:59:51,874

Um, I went out there I

went on a factory tour.

: 1409

00:59:51,874 --> 00:59:52,337

Ryan: Mm hmm.

: 1410

00:59:52,597 --> 00:59:56,037

Howie: They're like, we, we sell

you cans to make your beer, there's

: 1411

00:59:56,087 --> 00:59:57,377

really nothing to our factory.

: 1412

00:59:57,677 --> 00:59:59,117

No, I've never seen cans made.

: 1413

00:59:59,187 --> 00:59:59,527

Ryan: Yeah.

: 1414

00:59:59,577 --> 01:00:00,877

Howie: I had no idea how they were made.

: 1415

01:00:01,247 --> 01:00:04,227

So the guy's trying to say to me, well,

you know, we have big sheets of aluminum.

: 1416

01:00:04,607 --> 01:00:05,007

No, no, no.

: 1417

01:00:05,017 --> 01:00:06,347

I, I want to see it.

: 1418

01:00:06,367 --> 01:00:06,577

Yeah.

: 1419

01:00:06,577 --> 01:00:07,617

I'll fly out to Denver.

: 1420

01:00:07,877 --> 01:00:08,097

Yeah.

: 1421

01:00:08,177 --> 01:00:08,557

Okay.

: 1422

01:00:08,557 --> 01:00:09,357

What's the problem?

: 1423

01:00:09,747 --> 01:00:12,122

And You can learn something.

: 1424

01:00:12,152 --> 01:00:15,292

So that would be a real tip

that I tell people all the time.

: 1425

01:00:15,722 --> 01:00:20,582

If you're interested in whatever industry,

if you're interested in food, okay,

: 1426

01:00:20,932 --> 01:00:22,852

then you need to get into some kitchens.

: 1427

01:00:23,082 --> 01:00:25,542

I mean, I was fortunate growing

up in the meat business.

: 1428

01:00:26,002 --> 01:00:30,322

I saw most kitchens in, I would

say Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse,

: 1429

01:00:30,562 --> 01:00:32,382

and many in New York City.

: 1430

01:00:32,792 --> 01:00:33,592

I was in the kitchens.

: 1431

01:00:33,592 --> 01:00:35,002

I never went out to the dining rooms.

: 1432

01:00:35,072 --> 01:00:35,362

Sure.

: 1433

01:00:35,412 --> 01:00:36,312

I saw the kitchens.

: 1434

01:00:36,607 --> 01:00:43,597

I know more about where not to eat,

but I would say, keep exploring, keep

: 1435

01:00:43,637 --> 01:00:48,607

trying to discover and turn another

page because you may see something.

: 1436

01:00:49,107 --> 01:00:50,707

And I'm really big on visual.

: 1437

01:00:51,137 --> 01:00:55,057

So I think making sure if you're, no

matter what business, I mean, it's just

: 1438

01:00:55,057 --> 01:00:59,417

like vegetables, go out and see these

people, see how they make these things.

: 1439

01:00:59,417 --> 01:01:03,317

Cause there may be something that

comes to you and say, Ooh, that.

: 1440

01:01:03,642 --> 01:01:07,552

I could apply to what I'm thinking,

um, even though it has nothing to

: 1441

01:01:07,552 --> 01:01:10,752

do with what I was planning to do.

: 1442

01:01:11,122 --> 01:01:13,942

Ryan: Well, Howie, it's clear to me

that you are continuing to take your

: 1443

01:01:13,942 --> 01:01:18,002

own advice, and I feel like we could

go on for quite some time, so hopefully

: 1444

01:01:18,032 --> 01:01:19,492

you'll invite me back one of these days.

: 1445

01:01:19,522 --> 01:01:20,642

This was a real pleasure.

: 1446

01:01:21,222 --> 01:01:22,872

And thank you so much for doing this.

: 1447

01:01:23,022 --> 01:01:25,502

Howie: Thank you, and you're

doing a great thing for Rochester.

: 1448

01:01:26,087 --> 01:01:30,987

You are, and uh, get out there and

support Sweet Pea and be part of what

: 1449

01:01:30,987 --> 01:01:34,597

Ryan's doing in the community with

the dinners, because it's important.

: 1450

01:01:34,857 --> 01:01:35,967

It's really important.

: 1451

01:01:36,537 --> 01:01:37,757

Ryan: Ah, thank you so much, man.

: 1452

01:01:37,757 --> 01:01:39,777

We gotta get you to come

over one of these days.

: 1453

01:01:39,817 --> 01:01:42,057

I'll make sure that we

send you an invitation.

: 1454

01:01:42,822 --> 01:01:47,982

But, Howie Jacobson of Red Rock

: 1886

: 1455

01:01:47,982 --> 01:01:53,012

this week's episode of Shelling Peas

on the Lunchador Podcast Network.

: 1456

01:01:53,042 --> 01:01:57,962

We will be back again next week

with another wonderful, uh, guest

: 1457

01:01:57,962 --> 01:01:59,722

from here in Rochester, New York.

: 1458

01:01:59,812 --> 01:02:03,442

Uh, if you're looking for something

to do on March 10th, we have

: 1459

01:02:03,492 --> 01:02:05,582

tickets available for our dinner.

: 1460

01:02:05,672 --> 01:02:06,052

Dr.

: 1461

01:02:06,052 --> 01:02:11,012

Tim O'Connor and I will be putting on

an evening focused on Spanish wines.

: 1462

01:02:11,767 --> 01:02:14,737

With wonderful things from his

cellar and a menu to compliment it.

: 1463

01:02:14,867 --> 01:02:16,777

Uh, you can get tickets at interval.

: 1464

01:02:17,157 --> 01:02:19,507

org and I'll see you next time.

: 1465

01:02:20,477 --> 01:02:23,537

You've been listening to the

Shelling Peas Podcast, hosted by

: 1466

01:02:23,537 --> 01:02:25,417

the Lunchador Podcast Network.

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The show is executive produced by

me, Chef Ryan Jennings of Sweet Pea

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Plant Based Kitchen, and Jamie Sazon.

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For more information about the other

shows on our network, including the

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Pauly Guglielmo show, go to lunchador.

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org.

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To get more information on what we're

cooking up at Sweet Pea, head over

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to sweet pea plant-based dot com.

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You can also find out how to get our

delicious new nutrition bars Juni

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Bar at juni bar, J-U-N-A-B-A r.com.

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Thanks for listening.